Tangerine Phase Plug

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Originally Posted by AJStanley

Hi all - brand new member, first post.
I've been collecting speakers my whole life (mid 40's), and recently was finally able to acquire a mint pair of Valencia's 846As. In doing research on these and the beloved Model 19's (which I have yet to find a decent pair), I read about this Tangerine phase plug, and the theory behind it.

My question is, if one were able to source these plugs, 3-d printed or otherwise), would they work in the Valencia's 806A horns as well?

Forgive me if this is a stupid Q, still learning about these classics.

Thanks all -
AJS

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There are two schools of thought on Tangerine phase plugs. I peronally like the old ones better. I'm open to the idea the Tangerines might be slightly better, but not convinced. They certainly aren't dramatically better.
Best improvement for the 846 is the crossover. Newer Altecs had a mid level control, which is a dramatic improvement. You can't increase highs with a passive crossover, but you can reduce the mid, so there are effectively more highs.

The HF circuit from the 30904 might help.

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Originally Posted by Old Guy

There are two schools of thought on Tangerine phase plugs. I peronally like the old ones better. I'm open to the idea the Tangerines might be slightly better, but not convinced. They certainly aren't dramatically better.
Best improvement for the 846 is the crossover. Newer Altecs had a mid level control, which is a dramatic improvement. You can't increase highs with a passive crossover, but you can reduce the mid, so there are effectively more highs.

The HF circuit from the 30904 might help.

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Funny you should mention that. I popped them open and found some curiosities. 3-4 things I noticed right away.
1. The horns top brace has been removed. I can clearly see the old glue binding where it was removed...why? More cubic volume?
2. The ports on these cabinets extend into the box. Seems like 99% of all the 846A's I've seen have ports around the horn.
3. I see a super very faint (and professionally done) coverup of the original area the attenuator on the rear of the cabinets. Whoever did this either worked at the factory and was able to perfectly match the rear paint/finish, or they were ordered this way?
4. My crossover is clearly different than all the other crossover's I've seen on 846A's, which appeared to be mounted to the above mentioned attenuator's backside on the rear panel. The crossovers are in a black metal box (haven't attempted to remove) with no markings aside from the usual LF, HF, +/- connections. Very curious. Wondering if they could be very early N-800-D's?

Makes me scratch my head. I bought these from a little old lady who said her husband was the original owner, purchased new around 1966-67 - speaker date codes support this, but there's some oddities for sure. I find it strange as I'm positive these are factory Altec cabinets, authentic, etc., but clearly there's been some customization done to them at some point, or maybe they were purchased this way. I'm still learning how customizable these were from the factory back then.

Thanks for your knowledge. All that being said, these things sing! Very very happy with them as-is.

p.s. I took this pic right after rotating the woofers 180 to alleviate any tar pooling over last 50 years.

IMG_1575.jpg - Google Drive



EDIT: realize this is a topic slide, apologies, I'll start a thread.

Looks like somebody tried to morph the cabinets into an 846B equivalent.

The horn has been moved forward/mounted to a solid flat baffle. That's not 846A construction.

I don't recognize anything about the crossover, not anything from Altec that i'm aware of. Maybe a scratch build inside a nifty project box?

Basically I second what Bowtie said, with a couple of additions.

I agree with him, that isn't an Altec crossover.
Not even sure the cabinets are Altec.

Yes, they may be original, but if so, they cabinets were probably built by the dealer. Was not uncommon.

Altec would even sell you the logos.
The cabinet bracing was done by a relatively inexperienced cabinet maker.

The fiberglass in the cabinet doesn't look Altec either. Altec typically did bottom, back, and one side. Seriously, I see nothing to make me think those are, or ever were, factory Altec cabinets.

Here is what I would consider a typical pair of what I am familiar with.


Altec LANSING VALENCIA 846A VOTT Speakers EXCELLENT Condition Photo #1489251 - US Audio Mart

A couple additional points i would note:

To expand OG's comments on the fiberglass, Altec cut and installed it very neatly, factory fiberglass should be obvious, usually doesn't run wall to wall, should be smooth and uniform, not lumpy.

AJS's cabinets are plywood(Altec built them both fully MDF and part MDF/part plywood), the correct plywood, look at the side panel edges at the rear of the cabinet. MDF floor, seems like the cabinets started out pretty close to the 1968 drawing. http://www.lansingheritage.org/image...ure/page10.jpg

The screw spacing on the back panel appears correct(could be spec'd in factory drawing for DIYers).

The mounting blocks for the back panel have been uniformly stained the base cabinet color. This was done on some factory cabs, not on others. Kind of an **** step for most DIYers. But, some of us strive for accuracy in the smallest details.

T-nuts for mounting the horn appear to have had their faces sprayed black when the baffles were sprayed, and have since been turned around in the new baffle and modified horn mounting scheme. But, a stock cabinet would only use 4 if it used any at all for mounting the horn. Also, the paint appears gloss, Altec sprayed the baffles flat or matte.

AJS does mention some artifacts on the back panel, i'd like to see a pic as well as a pic of where the 2 x 2 mounting block was for the driver end of the horn.

The hardware on the crossovers, and the spade terminals are too shiny and clean. They should show at least a haze of oxidation if these modifications are more than a decade old. Compare them to the screws mounting the crossovers to the cabinet.

Something about the end of the port tube where it was cut also suggests that it has not been all that long since it was done.

Not offering these points as proof of anything either way, just pointing out some of the more subtle details that i see/look for.

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Originally Posted by AJStanley

Very curious. Wondering if they could be very early N-800-D's?

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They are not. This is a early N-800-D

https://www.hostboard.com/forums/hbm.../2020/12/1.jpgaltecn800d by Altec Best, on Flickr

@rontec I would just send to GPA they will install a new phase plug for you. If you are planing on new diaphragms.